Offered without comment.


President Trump said he would defer to Defense Secretary James Mattis’ opposition to “water boarding” despite the president’s own support for the utility of tactics like this.

The graph below shows the world view on torture. You might want to revisit your plan to see the Great Wall or the Taj Mahal.

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Roy Filly

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About Roy Filly

Please read my first blog in which I describe myself and my goals.
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8 Responses to Offered without comment.

  1. Flayer says:

    I understand that Pres. Trump correctly believes that we should not take anything “off the table,” that to do so is tipping your hand and putting yourself in a weak position. Why should our enemies be reassured in advance of what we will NOT do. We are talking about people who don’t mind publicly sawing off an innocent man’s head and we are concerning ourselves about water boarding? Just silly… and weak.

  2. Starchild says:

    Flayer – It sounds like you are trying to take publicly sawing innocent people’s heads off, off the table. Isn’t that tipping your hand and putting yourself in a weak position? Why reassure your enemies of what you will NOT do? Let them think you might saw off their heads! Let them think you might skin (flay) them alive, pour honey on them, tie their hands and feet, and leave them on a hill of fire ants.

    Seriously, putting torture and barbarism off limits is not a sign of weakness – it is a sign of being civilized. Those who stoop to the level of their enemies, make themselves no better than those enemies. As Nietzsche said, those who fight monsters must take care not to become monsters themselves.

    The fact that a higher percentage of people in the United States than in Turkey or Russia are willing to excuse torture, according to the chart Roy posted, should give Americans pause.

    • LIAR — we can do to terrorists everything they do to us (and more besides) and we’ll STILL be INTRINSICALLY BETTER than they are BECAUSE OUR CAUSE IS JUST!

    • Roy Filly says:

      While i do not disagree with some of the points you made, waterboarding isn’t exactly “sawing innocent people’s heads off.” Special forces are trained to endure waterboarding.

      • Starchild says:

        No, waterboarding is clearly not as bad as beheading! And beheading clearly isn’t as bad as flaying someone alive and leaving them bound atop a fire ant colony. There’s almost always a way to inflict more cruelty on someone. But the existence of worse conditions does not justify bad conditions. When physical discomfort is deliberately inflicted on prisoners in order to punish them or extract information, that is torture, and torture is a bright line which civilized people do not cross.

        Whether the means employed are waterboarding, being subjected to unpleasantly hot or cold temperatures, being restrained in “stress” positions, being forced to stand for excessive periods of time, being denied normal access to food, water, or bathroom facilities, sleep deprivation, being subjected to barrages of loud noise, extended solitary confinement, extended deprivation of sunlight, exercise, and fresh air, or other means, the principle is the same.

        A cause is only just to the extent that those who adhere to it uphold basic human rights. The ends do NOT justify the means. Groups must not treat enemy captives in ways which they think it would be fundamentally unjust for an enemy group to treat their own captives. To the extent a warring party hypocritically treats prisoners in a manner they would consider outrageous and wrong if applied to themselves, justice is no longer on their side and they no longer deserve to prevail.

  3. Edward says:

    President Trump saying he will allow his Secretary of Defense to override him on the issue of torture is truly remarkable. It is a sign of an effective executive who defers to the views of the trusted expert advisers with whom he has surrounded himself. President Trump’s critics and the media continuously refer to his outsize ego. This should debunk that myth, although you won’t see or hear that written or said. Indeed, It was the arrogant egomaniac, Barack Obama, who had no tolerance for an opposing opinion. The day I watched him depart the Capitol in Marine One was the happiest day of my life.

    • Starchild says:

      It’s going to take more than a willingness to listen to an advisor’s wise counsel on respecting basic civilized norms against torture for Trump to show he has tempered his outsize ego, but I agree it’s a positive sign.

  4. Grandnana4 says:

    Most of these countries don’t torture. They just go ahead and kill.

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